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waterdemon's Avatar
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23 Nov 2007 19:13:35 IST
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New Challenge (IIT'92)
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5 Salutes to one who gets it right.

(No Diagram given)

Q)A sledge filled with sand slides down without friction down
a 300 slope.Sand leakes out through a hole in the sledge at
a rate of 2 Kg per second.If the Sledge starts from rest
from the top of inclineand if total initial mass of Sledge is
40 Kg, How long does it take to go down 120 metre in the
plane?

Everyone who gives a good effort will be rated.
Solution will be posted tomorrow by 4.00 pm.

ALL THE BEST.....WISH YOU ALL GOOD LUCK.


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Rahul's Avatar

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Joined: 13 Jul 2007
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23 Nov 2007 23:15:08 IST
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grt question n grt solution by biki
yaar i think its acceleration is always less than gsin30
so time taken should come >6.99 as it comes by taking a=gsin30
so 1.23 s can never be a soln
its only a biproduct of the quadratic
waterdemon's Avatar

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23 Nov 2007 23:16:17 IST
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The reason is clear dude acceleration of (gSin@) is not enough
for the sledge to cover 120m in 1.23 sec.

Hope you got it.
Rate if useful.

Cheers!!!!!@@@!!!!!!
ramyani chakrabarty's Avatar

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Joined: 22 Apr 2007
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23 Nov 2007 23:17:26 IST
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it is at a vertical height 120 sin 30 = 60 m
assuming free fall g = 10 m /s/s
time is greater than 1.23 s
so this is rejected.
waterdemon's Avatar

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23 Nov 2007 23:24:18 IST
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In the end : (linkin Park)

Just Joking I was going to say....that

"IN THE END NO ONE WAS A LOSER"
"EVERYONE BENEFITED FROM IT".........I HOPE SO

AND I APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S PARTICIPATION.
AWESOME RESPONSE.

THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!ALL!!!!!!!!!
CHEERS!!!!!!!!!!!AND GOOD NIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

siddharth saxena's Avatar

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Joined: 2 Mar 2007
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23 Nov 2007 23:39:15 IST
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hw is 38 d ans???????????????????????
 
after 20 secs, sand box's mass=0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Priyesh's Avatar

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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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24 Nov 2007 00:14:46 IST
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same confusion i have also got after 20 sec the box becomes massless
then how come ans is comin as 38.8 sec
coz remember no net force can be applied on a masssless body
Karthik M's Avatar

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24 Nov 2007 11:05:44 IST
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Amazing sum man. Do post more. Hats off biki!
Karthik M's Avatar

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24 Nov 2007 11:13:19 IST
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The thing to be remembered here is that the sledge has some mass. So the mass of the sand will be zero before 20 seconds, and after that, the sledge will move with its own mass.
Rahul's Avatar

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24 Nov 2007 11:44:49 IST
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even if the sledge is considered massless (as assumed in the problem) :
the problem uses change in momentum to calculate force
after 20 s there is no change in momentum so no force applied as we know no force acts on a massless body
but it will have its velocity
so it should be covering the remaining distance with a constant velocity taking a total of 38 sec

Blazing goIITian

Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 487
24 Nov 2007 14:16:01 IST
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wow that was something
the solutioin and the question were brilliant
and yes hats of to both waterdemon and biki
Arshdeep Singh Malhan's Avatar

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24 Nov 2007 14:46:24 IST
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congrats to both waterdemon and biki for solving it.i was just three steps away from the answer myself but being weak in calculus,couldn't find the solution till the end
biki ....'s Avatar

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Joined: 5 Jun 2007
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24 Nov 2007 21:53:49 IST
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there should be no confusion............

consider the mass of the box = M

in the equ^n for change in momentum...

( M + 40 - 2t ) v - { M + 40 - 2( t + dt ) } v = Fdt
=> 2vdt = Fdt...gives the same result...

i m modifying my solution....

New kid on the Block

Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 3
24 Nov 2007 23:24:00 IST
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 i think the answer is appx 3.0985sec
waterdemon's Avatar

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24 Nov 2007 23:35:31 IST
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Hey Dude,
The question has been already solved and we got the answer.

No prblems Anyways.............

Better luck next time
Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Laksahy Narula's Avatar

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Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 52
6 Dec 2007 19:02:20 IST
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hows tat -2t cming (M + 40 - 2t)v in this eq
waterdemon's Avatar

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6 Dec 2007 19:16:10 IST
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Dude,
The sand is leaking out from the sledge at the rate of 2kg/s
as it has been given in th Question.

So the change in mass every sacond will be:
(M+40-2t)
Here M=mass of sledge as assumed by :"BIKI"
40 kg = weight of sand in the sledge.
So totla initial mass=M+40 kg.

And then he has given the conservation of momentum eq:
(M+40-2t)V - M+40-2(t+dt)V = F.dT

Here t+dt as assuming that the mass of sand that has
leaked out in small interval "dt" to be very small.

Hope you find it useful.
Rate if useful.

Cheers!!!!!!!!@@@!!!!!!!!!
Laksahy Narula's Avatar

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Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 52
6 Dec 2007 20:24:58 IST
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if u dont mind can u just gimme the source..i mean..on net.any link to dis question..
i couldnt find in IIT 92 paper[:o]
yash pandit's Avatar

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Joined: 8 Dec 2007
Posts: 19
8 Dec 2007 09:43:56 IST
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well i got it less than 10 minutes
Laksahy Narula's Avatar

Cool goIITian

Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 52
9 Dec 2007 22:06:46 IST
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Won't velocity also change over the time interval dt? Shouldn't that also be taken into consideration?
yash pandit's Avatar

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Joined: 8 Dec 2007
Posts: 19
10 Dec 2007 10:23:30 IST
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acceleration has already been taken hence change of velocity is automatically taken into consideration



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