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samvarun rajulapati's Avatar
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24 Jan 2012 14:14:11 IST
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(3x+4y+1)^2 + (x+y+3)^2 =0 represents ?


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Vishal U. Karve's Avatar

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24 Jan 2012 14:30:30 IST
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The point  (-11,8)


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24 Jan 2012 15:07:47 IST
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C0nic with centr (-11,8)
Vishal U. Karve's Avatar

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25 Jan 2012 19:00:03 IST
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It cannot be a conic...it has to be a point.

If sum of 2 non-negative quantities is zero then both the quantities have to be zero.

Solving the 2 linear equations obtained on equating them to zero gives the answer.

Deevita Agarwal's Avatar

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25 Jan 2012 20:51:31 IST
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(3x+4y+1)^2+(x+y+3)^2=0

On expanding we get,

4x.x + 5y.y + 13xy + 7y + 6x + 10=0

it is in the form - ax.x + by.y + 2hxy + 2gx + 2fy + c=0.

to check we first find the area i.e.   abc + 2fgh - af.f - bg.g - ch.h= area.

it is non zero,  hence it does not represent the straight lines.

now, we check, h.h= 169/4 and a.b= 20.

here, h.h>a.b ;  hence, the equation represents the hyperbola with center  (-11, 8).

Abhishek Das's Avatar

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28 Jan 2012 03:05:53 IST
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ellipes?
Vishal U. Karve's Avatar

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31 Jan 2012 19:32:44 IST
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Guys!! Doesn't that equation just represent a point ?!! The point of intersection of those 2 linear equations..

If p(x) and q(x) are 2 linear expressions in x of degree 1,

and if

then since square of anything real can never be negative, both have to be zero.

Apply this sense in the above question...

Deevita Agarwal's Avatar

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6 Feb 2012 21:57:00 IST
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The corrected version

3x+4y+1)^2+(x+y+3)^2=0

On expanding we get,

10x.x + 17y.y + 26xy + 14y + 12x + 10=0

it is in the form - ax.x + by.y + 2hxy + 2gx + 2fy + c=0.

to check we first find the area i.e.   abc + 2fgh - af.f - bg.g - ch.h= area.

it is non zero,  hence it does not represent the straight lines.

now, we check, h.h= 169 and a.b= 170.

here, h.h<a.b ;  hence, the equation represents the ellipse with center  (-11, 8).

 

If it is a point that means if we check the radius that should come out to be ZERO. But, sqrt(g^2 + f^2 - c) is not equal to 0.  Therefore, the equation does not represent the point.  (where g=6, f=7, and c=10 )

Vishal U. Karve's Avatar

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7 Feb 2012 19:18:19 IST
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It is time to force matters...

Let a,b be any 2 REAL numbers.

The facts are

So if I say

there can be ONLY ONE solution.

Now if a,b are functions of x,y returning real values, then both the functions a and b must be zero as shown above.

Let a(x,y)=(3x+4y+1)

and b(x,y)=(x+y+3)

So the ONLY solutions to

are

Using this we put a(x,y)=0 and b(x,y)=0 . What we get now is

3x+4y+1=0 AND x+y+3=0

These are a pair of simultaneous linear equations which can only represent ONE point..

If anybody argues that it is a conic, I am ready to accept that fact if you can find just one more point which satisfies that equation.

 

 

And Deevita, if you call it an ellipse with centre (-11,8) can you justify (-11,8) satisfying the given equation?

An ellipse which passes through its centre?? LOL....it's ok...we all make mistakes, right?

 

chaman kirty's Avatar

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7 Feb 2012 19:24:55 IST
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its not at all a conic..it ll represent a point ... as if two non negative terms sum to zero then the individual term becomes zero and thus the ans is a point
Vishal U. Karve's Avatar

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7 Feb 2012 19:28:44 IST
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Just one more thing to support my point,

when the equation is written in the general equation of 2nd degree form, then

abc+2fgh-a.f.f-b.g.g-c.h.h comes out to be zero.

and h.h < a.b

which proves that the equation represents a pair of imaginary lines intersecting in a real point.

Deevita Agarwal's Avatar

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13 Feb 2012 19:55:53 IST
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Your argument is appropriate and satisfactory.  I was mistaken. Now, it seems proper to me.     




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