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![[Post New]](/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 12 Feb 2008 14:04:07 IST
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in ncert chem. it is given that work done on the system is +ve and by the system -ve BUT in ncert physics work done on the system -ve and by the system +ve which one is true?
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![[Post New]](/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 12 Feb 2008 14:13:56 IST
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arrey yaar...both r correct..in physics its totally opposite..even i had the same confusion...so for chem is work done on the system is +ve nd by the system is -ve..in physics its jus opposite..hope u get me..
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![[Post New]](/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 12 Feb 2008 14:19:30 IST
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I think it is the other way round! in physics it is:
on the system: +ve by the sys:-ve and chem the other way round! I am not sure just confirming. And if it is as I hv suggested then my explanation would be..... In phy i am concerned abt the system only but in chem i am also concerned with the surrounding.Just notify me if my sign conventions are wrong!
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![[Post New]](/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 12 Feb 2008 14:41:43 IST
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Yes yaar,it's all the same yaar.
IT DEPENDS ON THE SIGN CONVENTION U WISH TO FOLLOW.iF U WANT TO TAKE WORK DONE AS POSITIVE,THEN U HAVE TO USE EVERYWHERE THAT WORK DONE IS POSITIVE.BOTH THE CONVENTIONS ARE CORRECT BUT ONLY GIVEN IN THE OPPOSITE MANNER.
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![[Post New]](/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 12 Feb 2008 15:02:25 IST
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what happens actually is that when we study chemistry then we study the effects of any change "ON THE SYSTEM" and hence when work is done on the system we suppose that energy is gained by the system and hence it is taken as +ve and when energy is lost i.e. work is one by the system then it is taken as -ve . Whereas in physics we observe the effect of change on the surroundings , hence when work is done by the system, energy is gained by surroundings and hence is taken as +ve in physics and whn work is done on the sys. it is taken as -ve coz surroundings lose energy. i hope the sign convension is clear now (pls do rate me if u accept the answer)
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![[Post New]](/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 12 Feb 2008 15:27:03 IST
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it is true it is the convention as in chemistry we take in concideration the extarnal work performed on the system and take it as +ve........... but in phy. we talk about the internal work and take the work performed by the system as +ve
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![[Post New]](/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 12 Feb 2008 18:39:48 IST
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Let's make things a little bit clear !! Work done by what ? If we consider a gas is expanding against a force ( say the wt of a piston ) Then work done BY the gas is +ve , BY the wt is -ve . Work done ON the gas ( BY the wt ) is clearly -ve & Work done on the mass ( BY the gas ) is +ve . There is no arbitrariness ( no sign convension , dW = always F . ds ) Hope it is clear now ! So from the context try to grasp whose work done is concerned .
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![[Post New]](/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 13 Feb 2008 21:28:38 IST
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jus wanna add that the chem people follow the IUPAC concept which takes into account the work done by the gas while phy doesnt
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![[Post New]](/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 13 Feb 2008 22:00:47 IST
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basic formula is dQ = dU + dW in physics (work done on system is -ve) in chem it is dU = dQ + dW (work done on system is +ve) in chem if u consider tht work done on system is -ve then u get the eqn of physics which is also correct, so while solvin prob just chose one of the conventions and use the relevant formula, u will get the same answer for any method
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