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31 Jan 2009 14:51:08 IST
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A challenging problem: All goiitians are invited.
None

A disc rolls upon a straight line on a horizontal table, the flat surface of the disc being in contact with the table. If be the velocity of the center of the disc at , find the time after which the disc comes to rest. Given the coefficient of friction between the disc and the table is .

P.S: Let me add a diagram representing the situation:

http://kaymant.googlepages.com/goiitdisc.JPG


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rafa in revival mode's Avatar

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31 Jan 2009 15:04:15 IST
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sir is the disc in pure rlling??
rafa in revival mode's Avatar

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31 Jan 2009 15:09:17 IST
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sir plzzzzz make the ques more clear.if the sphere is in pure rolling then its motion will not change without an external force
Ady JEE-09 AIR 294's Avatar

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31 Jan 2009 15:40:58 IST
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is ans v/(mu * g)

Anant Kumar's Avatar

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31 Jan 2009 19:01:14 IST
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I have added a figure. Check that for clarification.

shraman  asa's Avatar

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31 Jan 2009 19:22:41 IST
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hello sir pls see if my soln is rite ...................... ASSUMPTION:normal force is uniform............................

IF WE DIVIDE THE DISC INTO VARIOUS ring discs OF MASS dm.....(let us assume seperate points of contacts crating a frictional force for each ring ..........................................

dm = [2(pi)(r)(dr)/(pi)(R)2]M ........................

NORMAL FORCE FOR EACH DISC...........

dmg...........................

torque about com for each disc .....................

[2(pi)(r)(dr)/(pi)(R)2]Mugr ....................(u = meu)..........

integrating the function from zero to R ...............we get net torque(say T) ...............

T/ I =A(ALPHA) ...........I = MR^2/2 .....................

0 = W - At ..................

W =At...........t=W /A ................................

pls correct me sir if im rong...................................


New kid on the Block

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31 Jan 2009 20:20:42 IST
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sir can it be considered as a linear motion. If so

a = F/m = umg/m = ug

so t = v / (u.g)

 

Ady JEE-09 AIR 294's Avatar

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31 Jan 2009 21:49:07 IST
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Sir, is the answer (3.pi.v)/(8.mu.g) ? Please correct me if i am wrong


Cool goIITian

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1 Feb 2009 11:06:57 IST
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good question  ...and shraman seems to be right...assumption is valid...

Anant Kumar's Avatar

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1 Feb 2009 13:09:47 IST
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@shraman asa

your solution is not correct. The basic flaw is your assumtion that the force of friction is acting tangentially at each point of the elementary ring which is concentric with the disc. This would have been true had the disc been undergoing PURE rotation about an axis through the center and perpendicular to the plane. This, however, is not correct. Here the disc undergoes rotation about the central axis but it also posseses translatory motion. As a result of this, the resultant velocity of any point will not be tangential. Rather it will point in a direction that is along the vector sum of the translatory velocity and velocity accuired due to rotation about the central axis.  So if you can modify slightly your approach, I think you would get the answer.

By the way, the required time is  .

shraman  asa's Avatar

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1 Feb 2009 13:11:49 IST
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I GET MY MISTAKE SIR ILL MODIFY MY APPROACH.....
Ady JEE-09 AIR 294's Avatar

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1 Feb 2009 18:35:39 IST
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thats sin^2(theta) x rho!!!

The frictional force on each part of strip will be perpendicular to the shaded strip as it is rolling about the bottommost point. Taking x component of frictional force we get the net friction responsible for slowing it down. This force remains constant in magnitude. then use linear impulse = change in linear momentum. Sir is this approach correct??

shraman  asa's Avatar

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1 Feb 2009 20:41:57 IST
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hello sir!!!!!!!!

looking into a ring of mass m and RAD r (0<r<=R)breaking into elements dm.............................

dm = (rd@/2 pi r) m ......................(1)  (taken theta as @)......

if u notice tan x = RWsin@ / rW + RWcos@ = Rsin@/r +Rcos@........................(2)

firction will act oppodite to direction of R(NOTE IN FUGIRE NOT RADIUS!!! ) vector.........

dT(TAU) = udmgcos(tan inv(rhs of eq 2) )r

dT = udmg(r +Rcos@ / root(R2 +r2 +2Rrcos@) )r.......................

put value of dm frm eqxn (1)................

integrate from 0 to 2pi..........................

we will get net torque for a ring of mass m and radius r..........................

but that will be a small element of the torque for the whole disc .........................

put m as 2 pi r dr / pi r2 M ............................

AND INTEGRATE THET FUNCTION AGAIN FROM 0 TO R.......................

ull get net torque ........... now using that find alpha and hence t...

sir pls tell me if my approach is correct.............


Cool goIITian

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1 Feb 2009 21:11:37 IST
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Hey   sharaman ,,the solution is correct....but dont you think that another frictional force will act on the disc from the line on which the disc is moving

Anant Kumar's Avatar

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2 Feb 2009 13:08:54 IST
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There is still some trouble. To be specific, you must find a relation between r and theta. Supposing that you do, it is still hopeless to perform the integration you have obtained.

There is, however, a better way if you take the elementary rings centered at the instanatneous axis of rotation (in this case they wont be complete rings; they will be arcs actually). Care to try?

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2 Feb 2009 15:58:25 IST
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SIR I DID NOT UNDERSTAND Y MY METHOD IS RONG......CUD U PLS EXPLAIN.......
Ankit Rana's Avatar

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2 Feb 2009 23:56:07 IST
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Important points:

Disc is in pure rotation about point A

so v = wr (since velocity of point A is zero)

Ref. to the figure r = 2Rcos @

                               sigma  = M / piR2

 

Now the full solution :

Note i've left the answer as 

 

 

Ankit Rana's Avatar

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3 Feb 2009 22:15:53 IST
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anyone with a better or an easier solution

sombuddha's Avatar

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4 Feb 2009 16:43:49 IST
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gr8 answer

Ankit Rana's Avatar

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4 Feb 2009 20:14:55 IST
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 thanx sombuddha




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